Retirement Money: How to Spend, Share, and Protect What You’ve Built

You’ve spent decades saving for retirement—but will you actually allow yourself to enjoy what you’ve built?

When the regular paycheck disappears, even financially prepared retirees can struggle to make the shift from accumulating money to spending it. Fear of running out can lead people to put off meaningful experiences, withdraw socially, or hold onto more than they will ever need.

In this conversation, Scott speaks with Monique Madan, Managing Partner at MVP Wealth, about making thoughtful financial decisions before and during retirement. Monique explains why your greatest retirement regret may not be spending too much, but waiting too long to travel, connect, and experience the life you worked so hard to create.

They also explore protecting your finances from risky investments and financial abuse, preparing for the realities of gray divorce, and giving money to your children while you are still here to see the difference it makes.

Whether you’re preparing to retire or already navigating your work-optional life, this episode will help you think differently about spending, security, and the legacy you want to create.

Connect with Monique Madan
Learn more about Monique and the financial planning services offered by MVP Wealth:

www.mvpwealth.ca

Connect with MindSwitch
Visit mindswitch.ca to access resources, events, and tools designed to help you create a meaningful work-optional life.

Transcript

Scott (00:05)

Well, welcome back. My name's Scott Armstrong, and you're listening to the Retire and Aspire podcast. Today it's about money. And you're just retiring. The paycheck might be disappearing. And what are some of the key financial hills and valleys that a lot of people who are going into work optional life sort of stumble upon? Now, to help us clarify that pathway today, we're going to be joined by Monique Maden, who's a managing partner at MVP Wealth.

They're primarily focused on pre-retirees and those who are rebuilding their finances after divorce. Monique's been in the business for over twenty-five years. And she's even been featured in the Globe and Mail. Monique, I wanna welcome you to the Retirement Inspired podcast.

Monique Madan (00:50)

Thank you, Scott. I really wish you hadn't said how many years I've been in the industry, but You're right.

Scott (00:55)

Well, you put it in your bio. So I I took up a license. Now Monique and I have met

you know, what, four or five years ago at a conference somewhere in Niagara Falls or something like that.

Monique Madan (01:04)

That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. We reconnected in

fact.

Scott (01:08)

That's right, because it was even before that. Yes.

Monique Madan (01:10)

That's right.

Scott (01:11)

it goes back a little way. So for the audience today, you know, I'm retiring, I've got this pool of money,

And people have talked about the money question in retirement forever and a day. You know, do I have enough? when should I leave work? We're supposing that you have left work here, and now all of a sudden you're into that place where there isn't a regular paycheck coming in, but you've got all this revved up energy. Like you're free and want to go here. So, in your experience, what are some of the financial places where people put the money and perhaps maybe they shouldn't?

Monique Madan (01:44)

It's so interesting because what I'm about to tell you is gonna be no news to you, Scott. The truth is is that if you've done the hard work and you've accumulated the investments and the accounts and the wealth, by that point I'm certainly hoping that you know what is an affordable lifestyle for you. And if you've worked with a planner, that person should be able to project for you what that affordable lifestyle can be quantified as.

what is hard to tell is whether that person is willing and able to make that switch. Because of course we know that being able to go from that regular paycheck to living off of income can be incredibly destabilizing. So this is right up your alley, Scott. And what I would rephrase the question, if you don't mind my saying, is simply that

I feel like that the regrets happen when people aren't doing what they need to do.

Scott (02:40)

Interesting.

I've heard it from the other way most of all. The the financial planners say people go out and buy their vacation homes or cottages or the RVs and they find out that mm those weren't the best investments. You're coming at it from a different perspective.

Monique Madan (02:55)

Right. And so what I would say about, buying the things that you've long wanted, most of those things are not undoable. So if you go and you allocate an amount to a vacation property or to the R V, now you're talking my language, by the way. Would love to do that.

you know, those are things that, yes, you might take a little bit of a loss, but you could monetize again. That's not

I think the biggest problem. I think the biggest problem is those who are so frightened with this transition, the destabilizing piece that comes from again going from that regular paycheck, that they will self-isolate. They will not do the things that we know are very important. So I tell anyone who will sit still long enough, go for lunch.

Do things that will keep you social and keep your mind and relationships vibrant because many of the other factors it might not be the best investment, you're right, but they can be undone. But losing the foothold on your relationship status and the sociability, that's much harder to undo.

Scott (04:07)

Fair enough, and probably in the long term more valuable than some of the material things that we're talking about.

Monique Madan (04:12)

For sure.

if I may though, just again on that question, a lot of people will wait until they retire to do those sort of bucket list travel items.

and one of the things that I do want to emphasize to you, to your listeners and to anybody I work with is it is more valuable to you to do that travel while you're working if you can take the time off. If only I mean it sounds like a very small thing.

But if only because you will have the cheapest travel insurance of your entire life while you still have group benefits. So I would rather see people prolong their work by six months and do the travel while they're working.

Scott (04:51)

So after university sometimes people take a gap year. is what I'm hearing

Monique Madan (04:54)

Mm.

Scott (04:54)

from you sort of like thinking about a a gap year for adults to get out and play and experience those travel desires?

Monique Madan (05:01)

Could you imagine? Could you imagine if people said, okay, I know that I can spend a certain amount every year, but I'm gonna take a hundred thousand dollars and I am going to do the things that I've always wanted to do in that first year of retirement. Could you imagine how empowering that would be and what stories you would end up with forever and ever. Could you imagine?

Scott (05:26)

It'd

be fantastic.

Monique Madan (05:27)

I think that's a great idea.

Scott (05:29)

So what about and we're just going off on a tangent here, folks. And if you've been

Monique Madan (05:33)

Mm.

Scott (05:33)

with me before, you know I'm tangent prone. so the actuario tables will tell us that you know, if you're in that 60-ish range, you may have 10 to 12 years of really great time where you have great health and mobility to go and do all those things. has it ever come up with your clients that you say, listen, take a hiatus from work and

You know, maybe the gap here, but it could be two or three years because you can always go back and people later in life are still looking for connection that you talked about, social connection and and purpose. That you take those years, you take gap years in late fifties and perhaps in the sixties with the idea that if you need more funds, you can go back to work later. Has that come up in conversation? Are we way too far out in the future on that one?

Monique Madan (06:20)

it has. There's no question that I've talked to clients about this. People are reticent to do that because they'd be interrupting their peak earning years. So for those who for instance, it might be a little bit hard to do that, maybe you have a professional license that requires active maintenance or something like that, or maybe a client list that requires your attention, that's where maybe rather than going

To no income at points, perhaps you instead insert some income at later stages. So if I can give you a couple of examples, I've had executives that I've worked with who not so willingly had to leave their positions. And with the right counseling and the right projections, they determined,

To what degree do you want to slow down the bleed of your capital? And that really frees you to do things that maybe you never thought you could afford to do. So one client who left a very, very high paying job, forcibly, then ended up working at a nursery to spend her days talking about plants and talking to other gardeners.

And just slowed the bleed. she didn't need

Scott (07:35)

Yeah.

Monique Madan (07:35)

to earn that amount of money that she was earning before. So yeah.

Scott (07:40)

So you could just actually

leave the position and come back to something totally different, which gets

into the question of do we have to have a different muscle? We've had a muscle for 50, 60 years to save. Hopefully, as you said, we've taken care of those investment accounts, the money's there. Is it a different muscle in your experience to be willing to spend once you have transitioned, or are you finding clients are fairly willing to spend?

Monique Madan (08:07)

You know what, I don't know that it's a one size fits all, Scott. there's certainly those who are ready and willing to spend like they've always hoped that they could. And there are just as many who are paralyzed with fear. that's where I would hope people have been doing a lot of this counseling and introspection for years and years.

before they get into a situation like this so that they can have an understanding of what is sustainable if they want to you know spend more than that, what they might need to do again to slow the bleed or, you know, make other considerations and compromises. But boy, are you hitting on something there. it does seem like they're almost built out of a different cloth.

Scott (08:54)

Yes, yeah, and so as you said, one size doesn't fit all. If you had to pick one or two purchases that you see your clients making repeatedly that you would advise against that have not served them well, is there anything that pops to mind on that?

Monique Madan (09:11)

I would say be true to your investment philosophy. So I'm not an investment advisor, you know this. but I don't know that in a time where you're drawing from savings is a great time to become a gambler or follow fads. I'd be very, very careful with that. I'd also be incredibly protective of who you share your wealth with.

there's an awful lot of abuse that's happening to seniors. a lot of it's happening online and you just wanna be incredibly protective. So here's again where you might just want to have a professional that could be a portfolio manager, an accountant, a financial planner, just a little bit of sober second thought because you don't want to make

bad decisions at a time where you can't recoup those savings.

Scott (10:03)

Absolutely, 'cause time when you're in sixties is not necessarily you don't have the fifty years in front of you. Hopefully you do, but chances are, what if I have not had a financial advisor that my resources haven't garnered the attention of a financial advisor, or in fact I have not actively sought one out. let's just say I I have a hundred thousand dollars and and that's what I've got.

Is there gonna be some financial advisor who's gonna be interested in sort of helping me sort of chart the next steps, or is that too low of a sum?

Monique Madan (10:35)

No,

you're asking a good question. There's no question that the financial industry is segmented with different levels of wealth garnering that kind of attention. You're not wrong. But there's always help to be had for some people. So even much less than a hundred thousand if you are struggling with things like budgeting and debt, there are resources. If you have, for example, from a hundred thousand to maybe five hundred thousand, you know

you'll be probably very well served in your bank branch. Exceeding 500,000, now you're getting into different levels of service and responsibility. So you may see people who may still be at their bank branch or with the associated brokerage at that point. But

very often if you're looking at even two million plus

you probably want to steer away, at least in my opinion, from the mass services, so the robo advisors and things like that. Because at that point it becomes, especially the segment that you're talking about, it becomes really important not to follow trends. You do want to have a sober second opinion.

Scott (11:46)

at all levels, it seems to be we want that sober second opinion so that we don't go ready shoot aim, which is is often the case.

Monique Madan (11:52)

very well said. I mean, there is

a growing requirement from financial planners in particular and portfolio managers, slightly less so, to have someone on file that we can ask if someone is behaving a little bit erratically or is not reachable for an extended period of time, there is a trusted contact person that we have to have on file so that we can

have a person to contact and say, you know, Scott hasn't been returning my calls and I really need to ask him a question, that person would be saying, Scott's living his best life on a cruise. That's why you can't reach him. He'll be back. But it becomes incredibly important and funny enough,

more strictly regulated for financial planners than portfolio managers.

Scott (12:40)

I followed lot of demographic trends and divorce rates specifically, and you know, divorce rates are actually going down in most segments, except for those in the plus fifty range. That one in three divorces now is in the plus fifty range. And just from your perspective, that you know, this this partner that you've had that's that you've shared resources with,

Advice

or thoughts that if divorce is knocking on your door or you're worried in in some way, what kind of advice can you give people that might be encountering a a divide by two or three or whatever it might be?

Monique Madan (13:15)

That's the topic for a whole other podcast, but to introduce it today.

what I would say is it's a whole other ball game.

Scott (13:24)

Okay, well I'll tell you what,

hold on to that thought.

I'm gonna give you a moment to think about a couple of things. And when we come back for break, we're gonna get into Monique's brain to find out what we can think about doing if gray divorce is affecting us or somebody that we love. This is Scott from the Retire & Aspire podcast. We'll see you back here in a moment.

Scott (14:20)

Well, welcome back to the Retire and Inspire podcast. My name is Scott, and we're here with Monique Madden from MVP Wealth. And just before break, we sort of dove into this provocative question. I I think it's provocative, judging from Monique's facial reaction, about one in three divorces currently in society in Canada are gray divorces, considered, you know, 50 years of age or older, and how that impacts and advice we should be

thinking about if that's the situation that we unfortunately may find ourselves in or somebody that we know. And Monique, you were about to come up with a couple of things that I shut you down. I hope you'll forgive me for that

Monique Madan (14:57)

Absolutely. So gray divorce is, as I mentioned earlier, just a a topic in and of itself. But let me give you just a little bit of a flavor for why it's so unique and challenging. first off, it's unique and challenging because you can't really prepare for it. you're not allowed to segregate assets in preparation for, you know,

a division. Anything that you were to do if you wanted to prepare for a grey divorce in the way of trying to protect yourself, a good number of those things would be reversed by the courts. So if you did try to squirrel money away or or do something like that, that kind of manipulation wouldn't work. There are very rudimentary things that you can do though. So maybe

less so in the current generation than previous generations, but little things like making sure that you have your own bank accounts and credit cards. you'll forgive me, I'm gonna be a little bit traditional about this when I say specifically to women who traditionally have not been able to accumulate wealth. It's incredibly important that you have your own bank account and your own credit card.

even if it's not actively used, you should have one thing that cannot be frozen in the event of a separation or a divorce. Part of the reason why the gray divorce area is so important is as you said before the break, for most separations and divisions of assets, there will be may not be a perfect halving.

of assets, but there will be the creation of two households where one used to exist and that's expensive. In the gray divorce area, of course, you don't have the runway to reaccumulate or reamass those assets. And you're also giving consideration to things like, you know, the potential of aging alone and some of those realities. So there may be less emphasis, for example,

on maintaining the home in a particular school district. that won't be as relevant. But being able to have the assets to age in grace and dignity, that might be more important. So in terms of preparing for the future, I don't know how much you can prepare for gray divorce, but in recovering from it, you want to make the best decisions you can to make sure that

beyond lifestyle. you're protecting dignity, you're protecting your ability to get the help that you're gonna need. as I mentioned earlier, remaining social, and, you know, doing the things you need to do to

keep independent.

Scott (17:38)

May ask you this, because you you brought this up. I know years ago when divorce happened, what you advocated about having your own bank accounts and credit cards, that in some cases one of the people in the relationship, it may have been the breadwinner, it could have been the guy, had the credit rating.

and the score

Monique Madan (17:54)

Right.

Scott (17:55)

and then when the divorce occurred, even though the woman was paying the bills or one partner was paying the bills, the credit value for that in terms of how society evaluates you as a credit risk all went to one partner and they were left with nothing and which made really tough times getting loans and credit card amounts to sustain that living that they had. In your experience to date, is is that still somewhat true, or of the institutions caught up that

You know, it may have been a joint household, they more equally allow the credit to be divided amongst the partners.

Monique Madan (18:30)

The credit

and the assets. So you have to keep in mind that whether assets are in one name or both, the assets will be treated differently by the financial institutions. So whether you n share a last name or not, unless you're named on an account, you're not gonna have access to it. At the end of the day, when the division of property happens, yes, you'll get the amount that

you probably should be getting I won't use the word deserve,

Scott (18:58)

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Monique Madan (19:00)

but the amount that you should be getting, but you may not have line of sight into what you need. And

Scott (19:04)

Mm-hmm.

Monique Madan (19:05)

that could happen on the asset level or on the credit level.

Scott (19:10)

By the way, just in case you don't know your credit score, sorry, Equifax

or if you'd recommend someone else that you can do what's called a soft pull on your credit score so that you know what your credit score is opposed perhaps to your couple's or marriage credit score.

Monique Madan (19:24)

Indeed. And I would just add TransUn as a

Scott (19:27)

Okay.

Monique Madan (19:27)

another credit rating agency that would be able to assist with that. So in terms of prep in the years when things are maybe not going so well, provided this isn't a complete surprise to you, having your own credit card and establishing your own credit is very helpful. And again, if there's that messy middle in the years preceding the separation.

you do not want to be co signing loans because you will end up with a responsibility for something whether you agreed with how the money was used or not. So maybe that's a a point of caution I would share with your listeners.

Scott (20:02)

Well, I have just put a star in my calendar beside. This requires more thought and and discussion than we've got time here for today. But hopefully

Monique Madan (20:10)

Indeed.

Scott (20:11)

a a couple of those things make sense to the listeners. one other topic that comes up an awful lot is you know, a lot of people leave their property, their property, their money in a will. and

Increasingly

because of a cost of living. Well, I'm in Vancouver, you know, and so all of a sudden to get a down payment on of a house, you know, is a quarter million dollars, understanding lending process of 25%. A lot of kids don't have that. What about gifting money early not from a kids benefit perspective? That that's a value-based thing, but from a a tax efficiency perspective or implications about giving money before you die to help them when they need the money.

Monique Madan (20:52)

This is such an important topic, and I'm so thrilled that you brought it up, Scott. So I I was just literally talking about this with a young person yesterday. We have to keep in mind that abundance is attractive and the idea of more is incredibly attractive, and yet we live in a very highly taxed country.

Things like unchecked capital gains, so funds that have been invested for years and years and years and have been accumulating unchecked will eventually have to be settled up. And you may not want to have them settled up all at once. one of the considerations that we give at MVP Wealth is we basically monitor something called the maximum sustainable budget. And that is essentially self-defined.

But it's essentially what is the highest standard of living that you could enjoy without running out of investment assets, saving home equity for a separate discussion, without running out of investment assets by some mutually agreed upon date. And it should be long enough such that you can, you know, live a good life and not be stressed. If at that point, let's say it's $150,000 a year if you're lucky enough.

You're only spending $100,000 and you're content at that level of expenses. You're not wanting for anything and you're not depriving yourself of anything. That $50,000 could be gifted to a child, it could be gifted to a charity. And what you're doing is you have protected your standard of living on an inflation-adjusted basis already. That's what the maximum sustainable budget tells us.

Anything extra is accumulating for some tax consequence. And whether it's just the satisfaction of watching the money be used or sharing it, you know, we hear about wonderful trips that families take and the memories that are created. if that can be accommodated while you're well enough to enjoy watching it.

that not only has tremendous tax savings, but that will fulfill you with joy in a way that's probably few other things would. So I beg clients to give consideration to this.

Scott (23:12)

Okay.

Is the money that you would give to a family member, a child, taxable to them? So if I were to give a hundred thousand dollars and and no Holly and Dawson, I'm not giving a hundred thousand dollars today, just in case you're wondering. Spoiler alert.

is that taxable to them?

Monique Madan (23:29)

So the gift itself, we have no gift tax in Canada. So you're free to give money to whomever you'd like. But you do have to be careful about what the money is doing. So if you're gifting funds to a child for the purpose of creating an investment account, that could be interpreted as going against taxation rules. And we do have something called the general anti-avoidance rule in Canada.

And what we call attribution rules. So if you would like to create a $100,000 portfolio, but you want it in your child's name because they're at a lower tax bracket, that is likely to get you into trouble. But to gift funds for education or a down payment or whatever it is, you could certainly do that. One more caveat, if you don't mind my saying,

Scott (24:17)

Mm-hmm.

Monique Madan (24:18)

you want to be very careful if your child is

coupled and those funds go towards their matrimonial home. Because anytime a gift from a parent is in any way commingled as an asset in your child's hands with their partner, you run the risk that in the event that your child's relationship doesn't work, that half of those funds will go towards your ex

son or daughter-in-law. And the way

Scott (24:50)

Fair enough.

Monique Madan (24:50)

around that is to do it by way of a loan rather than a gift. A loan tethers the gift back to the family of origin. So that's a really

Scott (25:01)

Okay.

Monique Madan (25:02)

powerful tool.

Scott (25:04)

I

did not know that because I was going to ask, could the child in who's receiving the funds have an understanding or a covenant from you, the giver, saying these are to be just the the property of my child and not to be considered matrimonial assets? Is that one way of doing that? Or and this may be in the legal realm and and beyond you and my discussion, but is that something that you've seen done or has been effective?

Monique Madan (25:29)

Absolutely. There's something called a prescribed rate loan. And that is a loan between any two parties who aren't working at arm's length. So typically people who have a vested interest in one another's success. so if you gift funds or lend funds to a child even for the purpose of investment and they're servicing that loan, all future investment income remains with them and taxable with them.

The loan could be forgiven in your will. So as long as the loan is serviced and there's rules around how it has to be serviced, that is a very powerful way to gift funds to the next generation in a way that does protect them from family law claims.

Scott (26:14)

And it's interesting for listeners. I'm hoping that you're realizing

Yeah, you need somebody professional who knows these Monique Madden rules and the other ones that are there to actually effectively implement them because I always believe that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure if you have these questions beforehand and and think them through in as you would say in a detached, objective fashion is a good thing. as we close out for today, I've taken notes here. I've recorded this obviously, and I'm gonna be taking a look at some of these things. Is there anything else that those who are

or

pre retirees or just transitioning should be considering in terms of when I think of their finances, I'm thinking of the expenses side of things. Anything else that sort of pops up.

Monique Madan (26:57)

Can I be a broken record? Do your traveling while you're well enough to enjoy it and while you still

Scott (27:01)

Yeah. Yeah.

Monique Madan (27:03)

have travel insurance.

That's my number

one recommendation.

Scott (27:10)

Fair enough. I do know somebody, a friend who's in Ottawa, went down, unfortunately had a heart attack in Orlando, didn't have the insurance or was because of pre-existing condition, anyways, and it was a six hundred thousand dollar bill by the time they got home. So, you know, just I I you don't have to sell me on that with the travel insurance piece. for

Monique Madan (27:30)

There you go.

Scott (27:30)

you, what's in the future for you when we get to work optional life? What are your aspirations?

Monique Madan (27:36)

what are my aspirations? So I think about this a lot and I don't think about it because I'm itching to get there. I'm very, very content with the work that I do. but I also know that I'm a creature of habit and scheduling. And I know that the infrequent periods in my life where I haven't been fully

engaged in my work or between really exciting projects, that downtime doesn't do well with me. I'm sure you know people

Scott (28:05)

Ha ha ha.

Monique Madan (28:06)

like this too. So I feel like I need to take that time and that introspection to create the schedule, to create you know, I'll use your words, the curiosity, the excitement about the next chapter, even if it looks a little bit different.

I'm gonna have to do that work. I have copies of your book right beside me so that I can

Scott (28:28)

Ha ha, thank you.

Monique Madan (28:29)

I can do some of those exercises. And the only thing I will tell you is it will involve dogs.

Scott (28:38)

will involve dogs. Okay. Yes, you do. I remember you tell me you had a couple of dogs.

Monique Madan (28:43)

Yeah, they are my joy. So are my kids.

Scott (28:48)

Your kids, yeah, that kids remember you were second priority on that. No, my dogs came first. And the kids, yeah.

Monique Madan (28:52)

Yes, and my husband he he knows the pecking order.

Scott (28:55)

Yeah. It's well established. Monique, I can't thank you enough for coming and we may just knock on your door to go deeper in some of these topics like gray divorce in the future. So thank you so much for joining us today.

Monique Madan (29:06)

it's my pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity. Anytime.

Scott (29:11)

Next time we're on Retire and Aspire, we're doing a live case study. We've had experts like Monique on and others over the past few weeks, but we're bringing on a couple of folks who are actually dabbling their toes in that work optional space. And we're just gonna pick their brains and see about the good, the bad, and the ugly. Look forward to seeing you next time. This is Scott from Retire and Aspire. And remember, you're just getting started.